Interview with John Sullivan

Interview with John Sullivan - June 2003

Age: 33
Born Edinburgh, though spent a lot of my childhood in Nigeria. Resides Aberdeen.
University: Aberdeen.

First of all thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. Let’s get this straight right at the start. Outline all the student archery related posts you hold.

To start with, my club is Scottish Graduate Bowmen, and part of our constitution is "to support where possible, through advice and instruction, the University Archery Clubs within SUSF and elsewhere". After graduation in 1990 I stayed at Aberdeen University as a club coach, and later started coaching at Robert Gordon’s as well. I qualified as a GNAS coach in 1996 and am currently upgrading to County Coach. As well as attending club sessions, I coach at the two annual SUSF training days. In 1994 I was elected to be a SUSF rep - this was the first year that two reps were elected, as it was agreed that the position involved too much work for one person. This has evolved into the current system of having a student and non-student - the student to provide an ever-changing source of enthusiasm and new ideas, the non-student to provide continuity and experience.

2000 saw me take over from Ian Whiteside as BUSA rep/Archery Chair. In short, I am the person going to BUSA with petitions to change the way things are run, and trying to develop student archery - the formation of an SMG to assist in this should hopefully mean that more progress is made without me losing as much hair. 2000 was also my first year as a BUSA Archery Team Manager - I took a full team to Madrid with Ken Bearman as Coach. I gained a lot of experience from that trip, and went on to take a smaller team to Thailand last year, and will be taking 5 archers to Korea for the World Student Games this summer. Otherwise, I officially judged my first SUSF Championship at Heriot-Watt the other week - I usually ask not to judge at these events, so that I can do the necessary paperwork and talk to people during the shoot, but this year we were short-handed so I asked my wife to take care of the admin for me. I may also be judging at BUSA Outdoor - depending on whether enough local judges are available.

That is a lot of hats. Let’s start with your role at Aberdeen. I think there was a degree of surprise surrounding Aberdeen’s performance at BUTC in March – 7th in qualifying, and quarter finalists. Were you surprised?

Not really - the team put in a lot of work beforehand and everyone gave their best. I was happy that it paid off for them, and of course both Aberdeen and RGU had so much fun they decided make one of their 4 annual head-to-heads a team round, so that they could ‘play team round’ every year.

How successful was BUTC and how difficult will it be to repeat?

Extremely successful and enjoyable. I think it will be quite difficult to repeat (at least to that standard) as Edinburgh had such a large organising team with a lot of experience and assistance.

Was the decision for Aberdeen not to attend BUSA Indoors a financial one and will Aberdeen attend BUSA Outdoors?

Sorry, I’m just the coach! I was disappointed as this broke their run of something like 8 years without missing an event. You’ll have to ask them if they’ll be going to the Outdoor.

The SUSF Calendar, indoors comprises seven league matches and novice and senior championships. Why was completing the match programme this season difficult and what steps have been taken to ensure next season goes more smoothly?

An awful lot of bad luck (more problems than any other year) - Heriot-Watt had their hall flooded for example - along with the perennial problem of not booking halls early enough. Clubs are reminded every year to get facilities booked asap, and the calendar is produced within a week or so of the Outdoor Champs, but in the end it is down to the Club Captain. This year I have allowed for BUSA Indoor in the schedule, so that hopefully no match has to rescheduled because of that (suggested date is the 21st Feb).

Have you heard anything about the formation of a club at Stirling?

Various rumours every so often - the same for a club at Glasgow. They were encouraged to attend as guests at any of the league matches with the consent of the hosts, but never did so. Entry forms for the SUSF Championships are sent to all Scottish Universities, so that hopefully any individuals or fledgling club will attend. Of course, clubs wishing to be part of the league would have to have a trial year first, as Heriot-Watt did in 1996-97.

How pleased were you with SUSF Outdoors and Aberdeen’s performance at it?

SUSF Outdoors went well. Aberdeen didn’t perform as well as they could, but the novices all had fun and are keen to go to other outdoor shoots this summer. Robert Gordon’s did brilliantly, with their first gold medal - top gent novice (only been shooting 3 months) - and a team bronze. A great end to a year full of improvement.

How competitive do you think all the SUSF competitions are and is SUSF any more or less competitive than the other regional leagues?

SUSF competitions are dominated by Edinburgh, but I don’t think that makes them less competitive. The ‘Holy Chalice’ of beating Edinburgh has driven many of the clubs over the years, with a sense of history being made every time they do it. I think the other SUSF clubs are proud that they have the best club in BUSA in their league, and it certainly means that they are challenged to do their best. It will be interesting to see what effect Edinburgh’s decision to make up its league team of intermediates next year has.

What are your views of the development of a Scottish (and by inference, parallel English and Welsh) University Teams?

A SUSF squad was proposed a year or so ago, but there wasn’t any real interest at the time. If there ever is, then the composition and development would be decided at Captains’ Meetings - there is already provision in the constitution for one, but it needs the backing of all the SUSF clubs first. The home nations tournament held at the BUSA Championships is growing in success, and will hopefully raise interest from all the countries for developing their top archers. It is hoped that more and more people will want to be a part of either the squads or the Home Nations as they develop further.

Would a home nation universities match held at the Euronations be a worthwhile addition to the calendar?

Yes - and I have just learned that Ian has asked for a SUSF team to attend. Of course, this is far from ideal with only 3 weeks to go, but we will do our best. Matt Nowicki will be the team captain.

Three seasons ago, SUSF and BUTTS were the only two regional leagues in existence. Next season, SWWU and NEUAL and SEAL will mean that as many as 30 university clubs will be in regular local competition. Is university archery as healthy as it has ever been?

Healthier. This is what I have been hoping for, but have needed the people on the ground to go out and do it. I would like every university club in Britain to be a part of a regional league, but in the meantime there is the email league for everyone to join. More competitions means that people will gain more experience and it should also encourage people to improve - as they aim to beat someone else from their regional league or the email league.

To what extent is this due to central authorities and to what extent local volunteers?

Almost entirely down to volunteers. I, and others, can and have provided as much information, documentation and advice as possible, but the work and enthusiasm has come from the local club members. I hope that they are getting the recognition and thanks within their leagues that they deserve. Obviously without anyone to actually do the job of running a league, it would not happen.

With up to two world ranked archers competing in the ladies field, is the round used for BUSA Outdoor (Albion/Windsor) too easy, or does it provide a fair test given the typical overall spread of ability of the field?

Well, no-one has maxed a round yet, and ties for medal positions are rare. I carried out a survey a couple of years ago that indicated recurve archers thought the round was appropriate for the championships. Compound archers were less sure, so I repeated the survey with the result that compound ladies now shoot an Albion with the gents (SUSF followed suit). I will be repeating the survey every now and again to make sure that everyone is still happy with the arrangement (or at least the majority), and I believe that the issue of round will be brought up at the SMG meeting after BUSA Outdoor. BUSA have been pushing for a number of years to move towards a ‘British Standard’ i.e. either a FITA or a York/Hereford, but I have made the case that the university championships attract a lot of novice and intermediate archers shooting club bows. Many cannot make the distances these rounds require, and would be put off. Plus there is the fact that a 144 arrow tournament means a starting time of 9am, not the usual midday which gives clubs the time to travel on the day if need be. I could go on in this vein for a while, as encouraging novices and intermediates is one of my priorities! Some of the novice archers do shoot well enough that they are part of the team and their scores can count for the team total.

I would be happy to see even more of the top archers in the country that are at university taking part, as they allow people to not only say ‘I shot at the same competition as so and so.’, but it would also help challenge some of the higher placed archers into shooting even better.

Should BUSA Indoor or Outdoor or both become a GNAS event and why?

No. Not all clubs, though encouraged to, are members of GNAS. Also, having these as non-GNAS events means that the students have more control over the direction of the event - albeit through myself as intermediary - as BUSA allow deviations from standard GNAS rules provided there is a clear argument for them and they do not involve compromises on safety.

ACME (Archery Competitions Made Easy) have been present in some form another at all the BUSA Tournaments since the Outdoors in 2001. What difference has this actually made and why do you think this has sprung up now?

I think some form of ACME has been around much longer than that - a lot of students are still around for a year or two after graduation to give guidance to their former club. I don’t know why it has become formalised now, but think it is a good idea. I hope that the trend of graduates and graduate clubs staying interested in student archery only serves to raise the standard.

ACME is in charge of running the Euronations, already arranged for Largs the week before BUSA Outdoors. In your opinion, could ACME successfully run the British Champs next season?

In terms of GNAS Champs, it isn’t really my place to say, although it is obvious they have the experience and talent to run an event of this calibre. In terms of BUSA Champs, I think it is important that ACME remain as advisors and helpers, rather than the organisers, so that more people get the experience of running a large event (and may therefore add to the membership of ACME in later years).

BUSA Outdoor has been held at Lilleshall for the past two years. Has the new venue been a success?

Yes, in terms of central location and facilities. Many people have mentioned that they enjoy the social aspect of camping there, though I have heard some say that they are put off attending as there isn’t much non-camping accommodation available nearby. I would prefer universities to continue hosting BUSA events at their own universities, as it helps to raise the profile of archery within their university as people passing by might see it and think about joining the following year. It is also good from the point of gaining prestige at the university itself.

Approximately how much money does BUSA make or lose on archery annually?

No idea. BUSA doesn’t keep sport-by-sport accounts, so although it would be possible to work out how much money is made from the championships, there is no way of working out how much ‘archery admin’ costs. BUSA does fund archery to go to places like Thailand every two years for the World University Archery Championships, but that money is allocated without reference to profit/loss made from the domestic championships. I think there is a strong case for rethinking the way BUSA allocates funding - at present, the two domestic championships have a fixed budget, so even if a £100 rise in expenditure would lead to a £200 rise in income, BUSA are extremely reluctant to give the extra funding ‘because that isn’t the way it is done’. I think that sports should aim to break even or make a profit on their home events - limiting the budget even though a larger one would actually mean a greater profit (through more entries) makes no sense. At present, Ian McGibbon is the member of the SMG responsible for putting the case for a larger budget to BUSA.

The entry fee for BUSA Outdoors 2003 is £12. Can you justify the fee being this high?

The entry fees are set centrally - I have no input.

Imagine the following piece of dialogue: "Ask the BUSA Rep.", "Who’s that", "John Sullivan" "Who’s that?". Here is a free plug - explain the job and how you do it.

In short, I take and come up with ideas to develop and improve student archery. I am the intermediary through which students can present their opinions to BUSA (though I cannot guarantee any changes). I have been trying (and, I think, succeeding) to raise the standard of the BUSA championships and to encourage clubs to compete - whether in a regional league or by email.

How long have you had the job and how did you first get it?

I started at the Outdoor in 2000. I knew Ian Whiteside from previous championships, and he had approached me with the idea of being the next rep at the Outdoor in 1999 at Aberdeen. I put in my application and was accepted.

Since you became BUSA Rep, what things do you think have changed?

Lots! The guidelines for hosting the champs were updated and massively expanded, BUSA records were compiled, the standard of the championships has improved, partly down to the guidelines, scoresheets and results format; there is more consultation with the students (e.g. changing the rounds); the eleague run this year by Andy Somers has had a great response; there are now articles on the domestic and international events in Archery UK, as well as selection criteria; contact details are compiled and distributed, as well as any other information that comes to light. I think there are more students willing to muck in and get things done - though there is still the problem of most student archers not giving any input or really caring. I find that there are still people who are quite happy to moan about things on things like chatboards, but not willing to come up with ideas to improve things, or to even communicate their opinions directly to me. I do not have the time to ask everyone what they think, if anyone has an idea for archery, or is not happy with something, they should tell me (or another member of the SMG) directly, so that we can try to do something.

You are chairman of the SMG. What does SMG stand for and how does your role here relate to the position of BUSA Rep.?

Sport Management Group. Archery Chair is just the new way of saying BUSA rep. I see myself as taking the wishes of the students and putting them in a ‘BUSA friendly’ format so that things that need to be, are changed. BUSA sees me more as their technical advisor. I probably make a pain of myself, but I don’t see the point in being quiet about things like novice medals - there would be no point in having the job if I wasn’t prepared to go out on a limb. One day I may irritate enough for them to look for someone new, but until then I intend to do the best job I can.

What is the remit of the SMG, how many times has it met and what has it achieved and how much responsibility do you take personally for this?

The SMG exists to advise BUSA on archery-specific matters. It also bears responsibility for pushing forward the development of student archery and keeping/raising standards. The SMG only started last summer, when I got approval for Ian McGibbon, Andy Somers and Alan Stiles to join. The other members are myself as chair and Marie Atkinson from the BUSA office. I think the SMG has had limited success so far, but I’m sure we are all learning and will improve things in the next few years. BUSA now have provision for a small archery site on their website, which Alan Stiles has been compiling information for, and which the SMG will be responsible for running. Andy Somers has been running the first year of the eleague (which follows on from the postal league which used to be run by Cambridge a number of years ago), which has proved popular. Our first face-to-face meeting will be after the Outdoor on the 22nd June. So far, all of our discussions have been by email, sometimes including members of an informal ‘archery development group’. Unfortunately, this hasn’t provoked the brainstorming and fresh ideas that I hoped, though Alastair Wilson (ex-Bangor) has been of great help in the barebow department.

What advice would you give to anyone considering running for your job, firstly by illuminating the application/electoral procedure and secondly in terms of workload?

The other SMG roles are taken on for one year at a time - I have to recommend them to BUSA. I don’t know how long my appointment is for, I suppose I’d better ask! Marie has her job until/unless she is rotated to another set of sports.

If you want to have my job, or have another role on the SMG, the main qualifications are experience, enthusiasm and patience. I came into the role thinking that I could change things just by saying ‘let that be so’, but the SMG only have a consultant role within BUSA. We can go out and set up things like the eleague, but I have been trying since I took the job to get novice medals without success, and come up against a brick wall when I try to get things done quickly. I have found myself sucked into the paper and committee machine that is BUSA, but really there is no other way, so you have to be prepared for that fact.

Having a secretary helps! There is a lot of paperwork and I would spend most of my life on archery admin if my wife Mel didn’t help. Truly, there is quite a lot of stress involved - I took the role expecting to be the students’ voice and champion, if you like, only to find myself treated as the enemy at times. There really is little appreciation for what you do, and a lot of notice taken of what either goes wrong, or needs improving. Things are better now that there are other people in the SMG - I certainly did not have the time to run the eleague, or the know-how to set up webpages. In future years, I hope the SMG will be much more of a team, and more productive because of it. In short, bring ideas and expect to put the time and work in to make your ideas reality.

How do you view the UKSAA website and how could it improve? Please be honest.

I think that it is an excellent resource, and check it out fairly regularly. Certainly it fulfils the role that I envisaged the BUSA Archery website would have. It is a good central location for people to find information and details of what is happening around the country. I mentioned in the Development Plan how the creation of a website should proceed and what it should be used for - I think that there is still more information that could be placed on the website, and this should occur as it develops. My only real concern about the UKSAA website would be if for any reason, you could no longer continue to update it, as this would leave a distinct gap in where to go to find out all the bits and pieces that you have collated.

Moving on, archery will now be at the full World Student Games which are held at the end of July, in South Korea. I can’t think of a better country for the sport to make its debut. Have you decided which team and "back room" members will be going?

Ken Bearman is going as coach (funded by GNAS) and myself as manager. We have funding for 5 archers. The deadline for decision was today (25th May), so I will not be announcing the team until all archers who applied have been informed.

Can the UKSAA have the exclusive?

I will be putting an article and pictures into Archery UK as usual (I always want to inform other members of GNAS about the development and quality of student archery), but I will keep you informed as well (the UKSAA website is down as an official contact on the press release forms for archery). Perhaps one of the archers could send ‘postcards’ again to take the experience directly to the students?

You have been to Madrid and Thailand at the World University Champs and World Student Games with the BUSA Team, as a team manager. What is it like to manage a national team?

Have I mentioned stress? It involves a lot of preparation and paperwork, starting around a year before the event (I did some for Korea before I was confirmed as team manager) as well as during and after the event. At the event itself, you are running around, making sure that everything goes smoothly for your competitors so that the only thing they have to think about is shooting. In the end, it pays off through sheer pride in your team. Watching them give their best and having all of the party represent Britain to the other nations is an honour. Worth even rolling down a flight of concrete stairs dashing from one meeting to another!

What attributes do you think are important in a good team manager, and what can a manager do to retain the respect or trust of the competing team members?

Be organised, know the rules thoroughly, the country, what is going to happen, what to do in various worst case scenarios, stay calm and keep others calm. Be able to take the responsibility for up to 12 archers, some of whom will never have shot in an international tournament before or even been abroad. Making sure that everything goes as it should, and that they don’t have to worry about anything that does go wrong. In short, in order to keep the respect and trust of the team members you have to be competent, know what you are talking about and make sure that, if crunch comes to shove, you can cope alone.

Will we full teams be sent and what help have GNAS and BUSA provided in this manner?

The number of places funded by BUSA really depends on the venue - Madrid was much cheaper to get to than Thailand! GNAS have funded Ken Bearman the last few times, but BUSA’s funding for archers is tight. This time I managed to get funding diverted from clothing and selection, along with a little GNAS funding, in order to send another archer. We are also going out much sooner than in Thailand - this should hopefully give our archers the time needed to acclimatise and perform to their potential.

What were/are the selection criteria for the archers?

The selection criteria were sent round clubs using the contact emails, posted on the BUSA website and published in Archery UK. Below are the main details:

To be eligible for the team, you must be a British national, and be at least 17 and less than 28 years of age on January 1st in the year of the event (2003). Those who graduated in 2002 are eligible as well as students at the time of the event (summer 2003).

Qualifying standard for applications

Ladies Outdoor

	Three scores of:	Handicap	or	Four scores of:	Handicap	or	Five scores of:	Handicap
Recurve / Fita Star	1272	24		1262	25		1252	26
Recurve / FITA 70m	619	24		613	25		607	26
Compound / FITA Star	1321	18		1314	19		1306	20
Compound / FITA 70m	647	18		643	19		639	20

 

Gentlemen Outdoor

	Three scores of:	Handicap	or	Four scores of:	Handicap	or	Five scores of:	Handicap
Recurve / Fita Star	1278	20		1268	21		1259	22
Recurve / FITA 70m	639	20		634	21		629	22
Compound / FITA Star	1311	16		1303	17		1295	18
Compound / FITA 70m	655	16		651	17		647	18

Please remember to include all outdoor scores of, or near to, the qualifying standard. If these scores have not been achieved, then scores closest to these will be considered. The qualifying standard for the third place on a compound team is likely to be slightly lower than above.

This isn’t the fist time I’ve asked you to be an interviewee on the site. Why did you decline before and accept now?

Timing. Last time I was extremely busy, this time I actually thought I had a few weeks without much other work (silly me).

This was one of the most difficult interviews for me to put together, mainly because there’s so much material to cover. As the entries for BUSA Outdoors come in, what are your predictions for the event?

Obviously strong contenders are likely to be Edinburgh, York, Cambridge and Imperial, although there may be one or two surprises. Once again there should be a high attendance, and a very well run event given the experience of Edinburgh (having hosted the BUSA Indoor in 2002 and the BUTC earlier this year). I am looking forward to the event and having the chance to talk to various archers.

John, thank you very much.

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